A blunt cardinal, a cautious Pontiff

By Phil Lawler ( bio - articles - email ) | Sep 18, 2025

The two interviews at the top of the Catholic World News headlines today are both fascinating, but for very different reasons.

Diane Montagna’s interview with Cardinal Gerhard Müller is terrific, and needs no explanation. The Vatican’s former top doctrinal official says “I don’t want to be diplomatic,” and he isn’t. His comments on Charlie Kirk, Pope Leo (and by implication Pope Francis), Muslim immigration, the collapse of European culture, “woke” ideology, and the LGBTQ pilgrimage in Rome are clear and cogent, provocative and invigorating. See the whole interview; you won’t need to read between the lines.

The interview of Pope Leo by Elise Ann Allen—actually a set of excerpts from her forthcoming book—is a very different sort of conversation. Where Cardinal Müller take pride in being undiplomatic, the Holy Father is scrupulously careful in his speech. Where the cardinal obviously wants to stir up his audience, the Pontiff just as obviously wants to maintain the calm. Consequently the interview with Pope Leo provides much less headline-grabbing material, and journalists who try to work the contents into stories that will justify dramatic headlines are distorting the Pope’s message. Still, for the careful reader, who can digest information without extra spice, the interview provides some useful insights into the personality and the likely plans of the new Pontiff.

Pope Leo is clearly hesitant to make bold statements off the cuff. That is not a bad thing, by any means; indeed it is a welcome relief after the tumultuous reign of Pope Francis. Here is the first insight into what sort of changes the first American Pontiff will bring to the apostolic palace. He will not make statements without prior reflection and consultation; when he speaks he will try to be precise. Throughout the interview he shows a marked tendency to presume that the current teachings and practices of the Catholic Church are right and should not change. In all these respects he contrasts sharply with his predecessor.

Although he frequently pays homage to his predecessor, Pope Leo explains his policies in very different ways. For instance, on the question of homosexuality, he endorses the pastoral approach of Pope Francis (”todos, todos, todos”), emphasizing that everyone is welcome in the Church, but then qualifies that statement: “I don’t invite a person in because they are or are not of any specific identity.” He steadily resists gender ideology and dismisses the idea that Church teaching on sexuality might change.

Similarly, Pope Leo strongly supports synodality, but stresses that synodality does not mean questioning Church authority. In fact his definition of synodality strips the initiative of any sort of radical intent: “I think that synodality is an attitude, an openness, a willingness to understand, speaking of the Church now, that each and every member of the Church has a voice and a role to play.” Who could possibly disagree?

When asked about pleas for greater access to the Traditional Latin Mass, the Pontiff replies, “I’m not sure where that’s going to go.” At first glance that reply seems noncommittal. But it does suggest that Vatican policy is going to “go” somewhere—that there will be a change. After the draconian restrictions imposed under Traditionis Custodes, the likely change can only be in one direction.

On another controversial issue, the Pope drops the same sort of hint that he is weighing a Vatican policy change. When asked: “Do you know yet what your own approach to engagement with China will be?” he answers simply, “No.” He explains that he is taking advice from Chinese Catholics “on both sides of some of the issues.” Perhaps more revealing, when he reports that some advisers suggest the Ostpolitik approach, he adds, “I’m certainly taking that into consideration”—thereby implying that he is by no means sold on the argument that has dominated Vatican policy in recent years.

Pope Leo reassures us that the Vatican financial picture is not as bleak as it has been portrayed—“I’m not losing sleep over it”—but acknowledges that donors are looking for assurance that their funds will be used wisely, and quietly indicates that more changes are coming: “I don’t know how I’m going to handle it yet, but I’m getting some clear ideas.”

Only once, in the extensive interview excerpts posted on Crux, did Pope Leo make the sort of statement that might cause a stir in political and (especially) diplomatic circles. He spoke about the suffering of the people in Gaza, and the urgent need to provide humanitarian aid. Those are now familiar themes in Vatican statements. But then the Holy Father volunteered: “The word genocide is being thrown around more and more. Officially the Holy See does not believe that we can make any declaration at this time about that.” Thus the Pope signals that the Vatican is not going to say that Israel is engaged in genocide: not officially, not “at this time.” But the implication is quite clear.