the personal equation

By Diogenes (articles ) | Feb 20, 2004

Commenter Marie at Mark Shea's blog has an interesting post prompted by Prof James Hitchcock's deadly accurate article Conservative Bishops, Liberal Results.

As Hitchcock writes:

When they (bishops) acknowledge the obvious evidence that Catholics reject official teachings on a large scale, bishops usually point to the secular culture as the cause (for the decline of religious vocations, for example). And rarely do they seem to recognize that official Church organs -- the schools, the Catholic press, officially sponsored conferences, even the pulpit -- have themselves been the most effective channels for disseminating dissent. Since the Council, Catholics have, in a sense, been reprogrammed into a new kind of faith, and against this new program formal reiterations of official teachings make little headway.

In my experience in Catholic schools and parishes as a kid in the 60's and early 70's, the parish and diocesan staff were way out ahead of us kids and our middle class families in terms of embracing the culture of moral chaos. The nuns and the priests were the least orthodox real people we knew in our parochial world. We watched TV and went to movies, but the only real people we knew who told us not to get bogged down with rules and taught us that God was like a warm puppy were at the parish. It was at the parish school where we saw the Eucharist tossed around like candy at groovy masses in the schoolyard. Our parents were horrified but not equipped to challenge the wisdom of father and the good sisters who had much finer educations and the latest training from the diocese. We were taught next to nothing about our faith except that Jesus was a real nice guy. Two of the five priests I remember from my childhood parish have been revealed as sexual abusers of minors. Both were shuffled around after multiple allegations. I guess it was the fault of the families in that parish.

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  • Posted by: - Feb. 22, 2004 6:03 PM ET USA

    Actually, I do think there were a significant number of homosexual priets before Vatican II. It probably started somewhere in the 1920s or 1930s and increased over time. Nor, do I think it was accidential. Catholics seemed to be very quiet during that time and I think there was a lot of abuse that was never reported.

  • Posted by: - Feb. 20, 2004 8:28 PM ET USA

    It is immposible for me not to lay the blame of this train wreck on the way the Bishops implemented Vatican 2. I was a child of the 60s,graduated Catholic grade school in '70 luckily for me my Dad was educated by real Jesuits and didn't by the bill of goods that they were selling.We stayed traditional and it ment traveling a long way to find a proper mass but we did it. Nobody but Nobody can tell me that there were 4,450 gay/homosexual priests before V-2 and they were just better at hiding it.

  • Posted by: - Feb. 20, 2004 1:36 PM ET USA

    You paint an accurate picture of infidel shepherds devouring the sheep. I am tempted to pray that the sheep grow sharp claws and go after false shepherds! It is not "holy" to be meek in the face of diabolical behavior. Scripture tells us we must EXPOSE the false shepherds. [Ephesians 5.11 ff.] It is no "act of Charity" to participate in lying cover-ups for fear of hurting their "good reputation." They have NO RIGHT to a good reputation. Remove priests, but not bishops? Double standard ! !

  • Posted by: shrink - Feb. 20, 2004 9:46 AM ET USA

    High quality survey data on sexual practices and opinions show that the Mormons have on measure successfully resisted 'the culture'. Mormon practices of birth control, abortion, belief in gay lifestyle, divorce, etc. are all significantly lower than the Catholics. The bishops' excuse that the culture makes us do it is simply a red herring. Besides, if it's the culture's irresistable push, how did the early Christians succeed in converting the pagan culture?