Catholic World News News Feature

WITH THE CHURCH IN REMOTE CENTRAL ASIA December 17, 1996

An interview with Archbishop Marian Oles, apostolic nuncio to Central Asia from CRTN Catholic World News

Since 1994, Archbishop Marian Oles has been Apostolic Nuncio to Central Asia, an area of more than 1.5 million square miles. He is responsible for representing the Holy See in the republics of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Tadzhikistan, and Turkmenistan.

Archbishop Oles granted CRTN an interview during a visit to Germany, where he hoped to find financial and logistic support for the Catholic Church in Central Asia, whose courage during the Soviet era and strong faith he greatly admires.

The following are excerpts from that fascinating conversation.

CRTN: Your excellency, could you please tell us some more about yourself, your education, your career as a nuncio?

Archbishop Oles: When I was a little boy in Neskovo in 1940, the Soviets deported my family from Poland to Siberia, because we were considered "enemies of the people." We first traveled through Central Asia, through the countries where I currently represent the Holy See. Then we went to Iran, to Persia. My mother always called it a country of liberty, because we were free again. After Persia came India, where I went to elementary school. Then I went to grammar school in England.

My first post as a diplomat was in Ecuador. My second post was Indonesia. >From Indonesia, I went back to Iran, where I realized that I was not that young anymore, because I used to live there as a boy. In Teheran, I knew the golden years of the Shah.

>From there I was transferred to Lisbon, during the revolution. From Lisbon I went back to Rome, where I worked for the Congregation for Bishops for ten years. Then they made me a nuncio again and sent me back to the East. I went to Iraq and Kuwait. There was a war between Iran and Iraq at that time. When this war ended we almost had a year of peace. But then the Gulf war started. I spent all that time in Baghdad. From there I was transferred to Central Asia, where I have been for almost two years.

CRTN: That sounds like a fascinating career. You have been traveling a lot.

Archbishop Oles: Yes, last month, I traveled, let me see, some 10,000 miles by plane and 5,000 by car.

CRTN: What exactly does your work as a nuncio involve?

Archbishop Oles: Sometimes it involves missionary work, sometimes it is diplomatic work in the literal sense of the word. First of all, my work is to represent the Holy Father. My second task is to observe what is going on and my third is to report.

Governments in Central Asia are very interested in what the Holy Father is doing and what the Catholic Church is doing. Since the independence they have been very open to the Catholic Church and Western civilization. I believe that for the first time in history people of Turanic civilizations, as are the people of Central Asia, have been open to us. The Turanic people belong to the group of Turkish civilizations. Perhaps the Catholic Church has not reacted to this interest in a suitable manner. Maybe we were not sufficiently prepared to this. In any case, some other people, especially the sects, are working very hard in these former Communist countries. We are rather slow, but that is probably the way of the Catholic Church. We seem to be slow, but we are, I hope, acting in the right way.

CRTN: How many Catholics are there in Central Asia?

Archbishop Oles: Before giving you a concrete answer, I would like to give some more details on how we assess these things. I do not like to use terms, like "Christians," "Orthodox," or "Muslims." I prefer to talk about people who come from a Christian tradition or a Muslim tradition, because I think that most people in Central Asia have not yet decided to which religion they want to belong.

In this context the people of the Church say that there are about half a million Catholics in the whole of Central Asia. Others will use much larger numbers. They speak of about one million Catholics. The longer I am staying, the more I am inclined to think that the others might be right, because many people are still afraid to talk about religion. They are still living in the trenches. Maybe they have been disappointed by so-called "changes" in the past and do not want to expose themselves to suffering or to losing their jobs and so on.

CRTN: Does the ethnic diversity of the population in Central Asia have important pastoral consequences?

Archbishop Oles: Yes, it especially requires linguistic preparation. We have to celebrate Liturgy in different languages, which, of course, creates many serious problems. With a few exceptions, none of the priests master any of the local languages. Some of them speak Russian very well. Almost none of them speak the languages of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tadzhikistan, Uzbekistan, and Turkmenistan. This is a problem-- and a great problem.

CRTN: How many priests serve these communities?

Archbishop Oles: We have about forty. But that is not enough. Because of the distances, which are enormous, it would be nice to have a priest in the provincial cities, or at least in the capitals of the provinces. But we do not have them yet.

CRTN: What are the greatest needs of the Catholic Church in Central Asia?

Archbishop Oles: We need everything. We are starting from scratch.

You know, when you start with a household, you need a table, but you also need tableware, and so on. We need everything and we cannot count on our own resources, because most of our Catholics are poor.

I admire them very much because, despite all their difficulties and problems, they have maintained their faith, sometimes in very tragic situations. For this reason, I think that we owe them our respect and our admiration. I also think we should be grateful to them for their faith.

One of the most moving moments since my arrival in Kazakhstan, was a confirmation. I saw people being confirmed in their 70s and 80s. There were, of course, young people as well. The people in their 70s and 80s, however, truly moved me.

I was not the only one to be touched by this event. There were two other ambassadors present and they were also crying. These old people who were being confirmed were witnesses of the faith. It was like during the first centuries of Christianity. You had those who were persecuted, and yet maintained their faith.

CRTN: What is the current status of religious liberty in Central Asia?

Archbishop Oles: On the whole, I think that religious liberty is respected. There might be some local problems I am not even aware of, but on the whole religious liberty is respected. As far as the central governments are concerned, I think we cannot expect anything more. I realize that, in practice, there might be some problems, some difficulties, but that is life. We experience these problems and difficulties in every country.

CRTN: What are your relations with the Orthodox Church?

Archbishop Oles: You see, I was born in the eastern part of Poland. There have always been Orthodox churches not far from the place where I was born. I have always had good relations, not only with the Russian Orthodox, but also with other Orthodox churches. I think that this can be confirmed by all the bishops of the Orthodox churches in Baghdad. Before going to Almaty, I also went to Moscow, to visit the Patriarchate. When I arrived in Almaty, I was received by Archbishop Aleksei like a brother.

CRTN: What are your relations with Islam?

Archbishop Oles: Well, I have worked in many Muslim countries. So, it think I know Islam very well. I have many friends among the Muslim people and I think that they are very good people. I wish I were responsible for only one of the Central Asian countries. This would give me more time to reach out to everybody. On the whole, I believe that my relations with the Muslims are very good.

CRTN: There has recently been a fundamentalist takeover in Afghanistan. Has this event had any repercussions in your area?

Archbishop Oles: Of course, some people are worried.

You must know that the concept of fundamentalism originated in the United States. Right now, when we speak about fundamentalists, we mainly speak about Islamic fundamentalists, which is not always correct because there are many other fundamentalists-- also among Christians.

I think that fundamentalism causes fear among Central Asians, because they realize that this can be an element of instability, for example in Tadzhikistan. I also think that many people see us (the Catholic Church) as an element of stability. I think that if we play this role in a proper way, we will have done our job well.

CRTN: There have been many complaints with regard to the development of sects in the countries of the former Soviet Union...

Archbishop Oles: I think that most governments are very careful with sects. They want to know who they are. This is very difficult for people, who, until recently, knew very little about the Christian religion and the Catholic Church. This causes many difficulties for us because we have different religious congregations.

For people who have been born and brought up in the Catholic Church, it seems very normal that there are different religious congregations and different orders. But for people who have had very little to do with Christianity, it is extremely complicated to understand, for example, that the Franciscan fathers are Catholics. "Why do they call themselves Franciscans?", is a frequently asked question. For this reason religious orders are often confused with sects. When you have the "Disciples of the 12 Apostles," which is a sect, and the Franciscan fathers, an outsider will not see a very large difference between both groups.