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Catholic World News News Feature

A FRENCH CARDINAL EXAMINES HIS COUNTRY'S ANTI-CATHOLICISM September 18, 1996

from I Media in Rome

When he begins a four-day visit to France tomorrow, Pope John Paul II will encounter some of the most hostile crowds ever to greet to Pope. For weeks, French radicals have been organizing demonstrations of contempt for the Pope and the Church. In an effort to understand the supercharged atmosphere, the Roman news agency I Media spoke with Cardinal Paul Poupard, a French native who now serves at the Vatican as president of the Pontifical Council for Culture.

Q: None of John Paul's previous visits to France has caused such a lively exchange of polemics. How do you explain the rhetorical call to arms on this occasion?

Cardinal Poupard: I remember accompanying Pope John Paul II on June 1, 1980, when he visited the Catholic Institute in Paris while I was the rector there. I was with him on the Place de la Concorde when he was greeted by President Valery Giscard-d'Estaing and all the families of the nation's leading politicians; they were visibly honored to be there. I also remember his meeting the following day, at the Elysee, with the great political rivals of that era--from Jean Lecanuet and Jacques Chirac to Francois Mitterand and George Marchais-- whose sonorous voice I can still hear, saying "my respects, most Holy Father!" Obviously that visit did not raise any problems among the laity, nor any reserves among Catholics.

So what has changed? It seems to me it is not the Pope, but France.

What has hurt the most, in France, is a mutation of the culture. Here, at the end of the century, we are confronted by a France which seems to have lost her reasons to live; a France which seems to have lost her horizons and her hope.

There are many reasons for this unhappy trend. The economic situation is one factor, but more particularly the French perception of that situation. As I travel around the world I see nations that would view the current economic conditions in France as almost a paradise on earth; and the people of these countries are happy! This year, traveling successively to the Ivory Coast, the Philippines, and Brazil, I had the sense that all these people had problems; they had difficulties and even miseries; but they had never lost their ability to enjoy life. By contrast, I see the attitude in France as morose-- a sort of languishing, like the effects of old age. The problem, then, is to change the mental state of the French people.

Q: To be more specific, how do you explain the harsh opposition to the Holy Father's visit?

Poupard: I think that John Paul II, after these years, appears to be a Pope who is a bit removed from France, because his history is not the same as our own. His character was forged by spiritual resistance-- against first the Nazis, then the Marxism-Leninist materialism and official atheism that followed. This, then, is a man whose character and doctrine were formed amidst a climate of opposition.

In France, for decades, the situation has been quite the opposite. The dominant culture has been blowing neither hot nor cold; and when I say the "dominant culture" I am thinking more of a set of manners than a way of thinking. But, in spite of that atmosphere, good and evil do exist. And when the Pope says so, that cause problems. He expresses his strong beliefs, at a time when France has seen the triumph of weak thinking. So that is viewed as intolerance. That is where I see the problem.

Q: You mean that, in effect, the Pope is accused of intolerance?

Poupard: It is very easy to miss the distinction between dogma and dogmatism, or between secularity and secularism. It seems that to many people, Catholicism is now unacceptable because the Catholic people define themselves in terms of specific beliefs. What is still more curious, many Catholics in France have fallen in line with that way of thinking!

Now Pope John Paul is coming to remind us that we do not need to be ashamed of what the Church has done for France. As for the question of tolerance, he urges us to respect others as we respect ourselves. It is important to notice that he emphasizes mutual respect rather than tolerance. We are not showing respect for our neighbors if we lead them to believe that we are something which in fact we are not.

Q: For the first time, the opposition to the Pope on this visit has been highly organized. What do you make of it?

Poupard: I have the impression that a climate of real intolerance is emerging, and in particular a climate of hostility toward the Pope. One almost has the impression that the hostility is directed toward this one man. And this is not the first time he has encountered that sort of personal hostility; think back to May 13, 1981!

The actual structure of the opposition strikes me as a diverse group-- a wide variety of people, some who say they speak from within the Church, and others from without. But of course one cannot be inside the Church if one is not in communion with the Holy Father. So some of these people clearly have a mistaken idea of what it means to be inside the Church-- the mystery of faith-- while others from outside have not the faintest comprehension of the mystery of the Church.

Both sides have joined together now, as if the Church were some sort of political machine, which was working in opposition to their own goals. For example the Church promotes liberty, but the dominant culture pushes toward license. And many people believe-- since they have never been taught otherwise-- that liberty and license are one and the same.

But of course that is not the case. I recall the profound words of Simone Weil, speaking to her students: "You are free to think that two and two make four, but that is completely idiotic!" We need to have the courage today, some years later, to say that of course people have the freedom to believe absurd things, but it is idiotic. Right now the dominant culture is pushing in a different direction, but we must stand with the Pope, against the tide and against this disordered way of thinking.

Q: Isn't the authority of the Church an equally controversial topic?

Poupard: In practice, that demand for liberty (understood as license) produces a hatred for all authority. The Pope, then, is an annoyance just by his very presence. The dominant culture is contributing toward the decline of all authority, and the growth of autonomy. This sort of culture has contributed to a measurable decline in emotional health, and all of those problems are becoming more and more serious. The tension is visible in marriage: If someone who was seen as a companion for eternity becomes merely a partner in pleasure, how can we deny each partner's selfish claims?

Q: And isn't there a growing gap between what the Church is saying and what the people want to hear?

Poupard: Today one can see two inaccurate views of the Church. The Church is not the guardian of the public order, nor is she the world's guilty conscience. Although at times the public teachings of the Church can be seen as filling one or the other of those roles, that is only because the Church is being seen through the eyes of the political world, which is completely incapable of understanding her true reality.

The Church is the witness of God's love in this world, and her duty is to proclaim the Good News. This calls for a sort of readjustment on the part of the Church, as the Holy Father knows so well. The Church must respond to the people's real needs, but at the same time she must always point toward "more"-- toward something beyond the dominant culture.

Q: You speak of a "readjustment." Are you hinting that there might be a surprise in store for us during John Paul's visit?

Poupard: I am thoroughly convinced that there will be a surprise-- something that will awaken dormant sensibilities, and reach beyond the superficial approach to life.

We may see something which affects the four pillars of modernity: well-being, power, knowledge, and liberty. These are all extremely good things, but when pursued for their own sake, they have produced negative repercussions. The pursuit of our own well-being, for example, is a fantasy, but at the same time it has an enormous potential to distract us from what is really essential.

Q: What is the Pope's objective for this trip?

Poupard: John Paul's objective is always the mission that Peter was given by Jesus in the Gospel: to confirm his brothers in the faith. His message is the message of faith.

The Pope is convinced that, despite all appearances, there remains in France a great reservoir of extraordinary human and Christian power, which cannot be forgotten despite all the protests and all the caricatures which one sees today. What would France be without St. Remi, St. Louis, St. Joan of Arc, St. Therese of Liseiux? They are the fine flower of our French and Christian heritage.