Tridentine revival rumors-- again
By Diogenes (articles ) | Oct 11, 2006
The London Times is reporting that Pope Benedict will soon issue the long-awaited document allowing for widespread use of the Tridentine rite.
OK, now, relax. We've heard these rumors before. And this is a London Times story. We've had reason to point out, in the recent past, how dreadful the Times coverage of Vatican affairs can be.
Today's article is another example: a journalistic stew of rehashed rumors, unattributed citations, and inaccurate analysis. Still this passage was interesting...
Pope Benedict XVI is understood to have signed a universal indult — or permission — for priests to celebrate again the Mass used throughout the Church for nearly 1,500 years. The indult could be published in the next few weeks, sources told The Times.
The Times is hearing what everybody else is hearing. The consensus among the rumor-mongers is that the papal document will appear in November. That's speculation; nobody really knows. But it's coming: a motu proprio authorizing all priests to celebrate the Tridentine Mass without special permission.
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Posted by: -
Oct. 18, 2006 12:51 PM ET USA
Alter Boy: Do you accept the Authority of the Church in Council? I am not talking here about those who promote the "spirit of VII." I mean the actual infallible documents as promulgated from the Council of Jerusalem through the Second Vatican Council. There are things that I did not understand and/or like in the English translations but I assign that to one of three things. a) poor English translation. b) a meaning that the Spirit has not revealed. c) I am not infallible.
Posted by: -
Oct. 16, 2006 2:19 PM ET USA
If the Pope issues an indult, it will be authorization of a ritual which has never been universally forbidden. That question becomes moot. Regarding individual choice, I know of many Catholics who will choose the Tridentine liturgy-and they are not all old people. I know of some who currently travel miles outside their parishes to Latin mass. I know of some who have entered the church for mass and, when musicians suddenly appeared unscheduled,have left to attend a different mass.
Posted by: Aussie -
Oct. 15, 2006 11:45 PM ET USA
Altar boy is an example of what I meant by "SSPX hardliners". No matter how reasonably the truth of the Catholic position is laid out for him, or how simply the terms of the argument are expressed, he will not see. He has placed his own deficient thinking ahead of the ordinary teaching of the universal Magisterium, and in doing so has entered into an unproclaimed schism. He is, in fact, less Catholic than most moderists, as he denys the Pope & Council's authority where they only ignore it.
Posted by: Gene Church -
Oct. 14, 2006 12:04 AM ET USA
esalkin, thank you for your charitible comments. Vatican II, like Vatican I or Trent, are a part of the Magisterium. We may like or dislike, but we are not free to dissent, and call ourselves Catholic. Luther did, and is no more Catholic than those adherents of SSPX. I urge all to find their way back to the fullness of truth.
Posted by: -
Oct. 13, 2006 3:04 PM ET USA
esalkin: I’m surprised by your comments. VCII, and the 40+ years years since, have been about nothing if not an incessant questioning and never-ending retrospection of the Church’s perennial teachings (ex: "pro multis" and recently, Limbo). So now, are you trying to tell me that it is sinful for me to question the written opinions (they’re most definitely not infallible teachings) of the fathers of the council and disagree with the prudential decision of Paul VI to promulgate the Novus Ordo?
Posted by: -
Oct. 13, 2006 11:56 AM ET USA
I either accept the Authority of the Church in Council or I do not. I may argue with the implementation of the Council or even the English translation of the Documents but if I protest that a Council is invalid I am merely a protestant. Like any bride the Church grows. Just because a bride looked great in her Gown is no reason to dress that way all her life. If I disagree with the Infallible Teaching of the Church, It does not matter how I feel or how much I study the matter - I am WRONG.
Posted by: -
Oct. 13, 2006 10:57 AM ET USA
Seumas & Aussie: The “real traditionalist” comment was meant to point out that the dispute is not just about which missal to use. I’ve read every document of VCII and found little in them that doesn’t bear the mark of modernism (many times condemned by the Church) and Protestantism. I have a Catholic right to the sacraments administered in a manner consistent with the Church’s perennial teaching. The Novus Ordo doesn’t provide that, or so I believe. I offer myself… hope that's enough.
Posted by: principle not pragmatism -
Oct. 13, 2006 10:37 AM ET USA
Where are we going to find enough priests that know latin? Not from the Novus Ordo seminaries!
Posted by: Universal -
Oct. 13, 2006 10:29 AM ET USA
Seumas and Sterlin: Well spoken. Thank you. I agree that we Catholics must be mindful of our traditions. The Catholic Church must always be in the center. And if it is not, it will return there thanks to the Holy Spirit which rests indeed with the boat of Peter. Be without fear!
Posted by: Aussie -
Oct. 12, 2006 9:38 PM ET USA
SSPX hardliners never read the documents of VII to find the mind of the Church. Only to find those phrases that can be deliberately misunderstood, so they can attack the Holy Church, claiming their malevolent interpretation was the Church's "true" intention. If they examined themselves they would admit that theirs is the truly great apostasy caused by Vatican II. A universal indult will create an escape route for those members of SSPX trapped in the society by Catholic liturgical abuse
Posted by: zonner -
Oct. 12, 2006 7:09 PM ET USA
When he was Archbishop of Portland ,Archbishop Levada presided at the centenary celebration of Holy Rosary parish.The mass was Tridentine in the Dominican rite.You can purchase the VCR.
Posted by: ColmCille -
Oct. 12, 2006 5:25 PM ET USA
"Real traditionalists" want to run the Church in place of the successors of the apostles, since the Holy Ghost has withdrawn from the Church and now rests solely on them. Pride is a powerful thing, eh? "We want... we want..." But what do you give? As for me, I am mindful of the traditional Catholic teaching that the safe place is in Peter's boat, since God's hand is on the rudder. And we who remain will continue to cast our nets. I thank God I am just a "fake traditionalist."
Posted by: Sterling -
Oct. 11, 2006 11:43 PM ET USA
Despite the efforts of the Holy Father, some of the SSPX wouldn't be satisfied until everything pre-Vatican II is restored, including Churching of women and Pagan Baby drives and those calendars with pictures of Jesus looking as if he's wearing eye-makeup. I wonder if the Church finds the SSPX as indespensable as some seem to think!
Posted by: Hammer of Heretics -
Oct. 11, 2006 4:57 PM ET USA
This is welcome news even if not every locale will benefit from it. At least now priests who want to celebrate the Tridentine Mass will be able to without begging the local bishop or having to request an indult from the Vatican.
Posted by: Gil125 -
Oct. 11, 2006 2:10 PM ET USA
I could be very excited about this if I didn't live in the see Cdl. Levada vacated in favor of his good buddy Abp. Niederauer. I heard---and I stress only heard---that somebody asked Abp. Levada shortly after he arrived here if he would grant the indult for the Tridentine Mass and his response was to laugh and say, "If I did that the priests would run me out of town." I'm confident that his successor and prospective roommate will see that the coming document is also DOA.
Posted by: -
Oct. 11, 2006 12:47 PM ET USA
RPP: If you think the SSPX will unite with Rome simply because of this indult, then you do not know what a real traditionalist is. The Tridentine Mass gets all the publicity, but we also want the catechism and laws restored. We want the sacraments and sacramentals restored; we want the Bible and liturgical calendar restored; we want the music, art, literature, altars and tabernacles restored; and, we want the priesthood restored. And we don’t want to endure the false ecumenism of Vatican II.
Posted by: -
Oct. 11, 2006 12:20 PM ET USA
Minutes after (or even before) it is released the USCCB will issue a statement citing: - It is not in our tradition - the need for a unified worship - use of an unknown language - the "sisters of perpetual liberation" feel excluded. - and on and on.... Remember we don't need an indult to kneel either.
Posted by: rpp -
Oct. 11, 2006 11:27 AM ET USA
I hope the article is accurate. If it is, we can thank FSSP and the Society of St. John Cantius, Una Voce and all the the societies and groups that promote tradition. We will also be able to see if SSPX truly desires to be in communion with Rome.